Thursday, August 02, 2007

honorable mention

enigma wrote an excellent post over at the sirens- and it got me thinking. that isn't unusual, she always gets me thinking :) she wrote about the notion of honor- and how honor is tied up with war. not exactly like that- but read the post. anyway, it got me to thinking about the whole military honor thing that is passed down through the generations and how families take pride in their young people for being a part of it. not that defending your country isn't an honorable thing to do- if indeed you are defending your country.

anyway, my rambling point pre cuppa is- why is there honor in killing someone else? how is this an honorable thing? did we just make it honorable to make ourselves feel better about the whole thing? if i murder someone, that isn't honorable but if i join the army and kill someone- i get a medal. that's kind of confusing. i realize i simplified it horribly but dead is still dead- no matter who it is. i guess i just wonder where the notion that putting on a uniform and killing people is honorable and who came up with the idea in the first place.

9 comments:

WeezieLou said...

those are really interesting thoughts. maybe it's not so much abt murder as it is abt surviving - but probably not. i think, in p;art, it's about rewarding our primal instincts.

Time said...

To equate killing with honor, is immoral. But I suppose we need to entice young men somehow, to do our killing for us.

The deaths caused by the lies and incompetence of this administration, that's immoral!

Suzie-Q (S-Q) said...

The Iraq war is immoral and the lies told to justify it are a sin!

Great post!

Larry said...

Saying killing is honor is the warped justification that the
war lovers have, who got us into this mess.

American Aries said...

I have the same thoughts too. The conservatives are always going on about "black and white" morality, but obviously it comes in shades of gray. Aborting a fetus is murder, executing a man or shooting one in a war is just and honorable.

alaskababy said...

you make great points, betmo.

everytime I see one of those "proud parent of a soldier" bumper stickers I think that if my child were to choose to serve (or god forbid be drafted) I'd need to find one that said "scared parent of a soldier" Scared they might no return, scared they might return haunted, changed.

The Future Was Yesterday said...

i just wonder where the notion that putting on a uniform and killing people is honorable and who came up with the idea in the first place.

If you knew the nights that question kept me awake......

You touched upon a key element....defending your country. If our country is under DIRECT attack, as was the case at Pearl Harbor, then only two choices are there: to kill, or be killed. Hero's can and do emerge from such actions. If your actions save my life and a hundred others, I say you're a bonefide hero.

This bullshit being peddled regarding Iraq, about kill them there so they don't follow us here is a crock. NONE of the people who DID attack us directly, came from Iraq. Not a single one!

So are our soldiers committing murder? That's the one that kept me awake nights...and still does, occasionally. I killed in an "Iraq", only it was called Vietnam when I did it.

Disobeying a lawful order per the UCMJ is this:
Art. 92. Failure To Obey Order or Regulation
Any person subject to this code who—
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2)having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3)is derelict in the perform- ance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Who can give a lawful order, in the Military? Anybody that is your superior in rank, or assigned to direct you in any duties, up to and including, the President Of The United States. You CAN NOT disobey a lawful order in the military. You are are required to follow the order, THEN take it's validity up with your superior officers. Disobeying a lawful order in a war zone is punishable by death, btw.

betmo said...

makes me wonder about pat tillman

enigma4ever said...

okay I feel kind of arrogant and egotistical commenting since it was my post that started this discussion., but oh well here we are...and I really was trying to figure out if we , or the Govt or the Media have distorted and propagandized WHAT honor really is.....I don't think it is the Killing is Honorable..and my son doesn't either..but he did think that having people like in the Guard who are dedicated to defending our counry and helping in Emergencies is honorable....and obviously Iraq has thrown a huge ringer in the equation and this administration has Shamed many good people....and also brought dishonor to many in the Military but ALSO to us as a Country....

But we as a people do need to in some way find Our Compass on this...and make sure we teach our children what matters...and is Honorable...

( and it isn't always about stars and badges and medals....)

okay I have rambled enough...