Wednesday, August 30, 2006

"religious" persecution

thanks to boo over at boo's tattoos for this article. i hear quite a bit from the christian right about how they feel persecuted in america because secularism is 'taking over.' well, aside from the obvious- this country was founded on the belief that there should be no state religion- the country was also founded on the premise that there be no religious persecution. it's called the first amendment of the constitution of the united states of america. no, it wasn't written by god- but maybe that's a good thing.

17 comments:

QUASAR9 said...

Hi betmo, trying to be impartial on this one, it is just as irritating for believers in a god to have secularism (or atheism) rammed down their throats, as it is for non-believers (atheists) to have religion rammed down their throats.

But all life is religion
1) religiously brush your teeth?
2) religiously drink cuppa coffee?
3) religiously eat thrice a day?
4) religiously have sex everyday??
5) religiously fill up car at pumps

Everything we do regularly becomes a sort of religion, whether good or bad, whether swearing or being polite, whether being cruel or being kind, whether being rude or being cool, whether listening to music or not, whether dancing or not,

whether promoting love and peace, or hate and war. No one religion or lack of has exclusivity

QUASAR9 said...

Religion is like music

Not all music turns me on
Some music makes me feel good some days, other days I play to another tune.
But no one can force Country Music Classical Music. Soul Music, Rock music or pop music on someone else. If you don't like it you don't like it, and there's plenty of music out there for everyone.

dawn said...

whole thing to religious for me.

jovial_cynic said...

the religious right is often confused about their own scriptures in regards to the world around them.

Scripture, through and through, does not call for a "christianizing" of the government in which the believer resides -- there exists no such call for the believer to change the laws of the land, nor to make the climate more comfortable for christians. In fast, most of the New Testament epistles were written to instruct believers on how to continue maintaining their own faith in spite of a climate of hostility around them, as that is a truer picture of the spiritual condition in which the believer lives.

But today's christians are fat and lazy, and would prefer to have the world around them change, rather than to change themselves to meet social needs.

DivaJood said...

Jovial Cynic is absolutely right - the spiritual condition is all about adjusting one's attitude to meet conditions rather than trying to forcibly change conditions to meet a small group of people's opinions.

But religious fundamentalism of ANY cloth tends to have a black & white view of the world; theirs is the only "true" path and everyone else should repent or die. Even fundamentalist atheists can fall into the category of "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" behavior.

Our Founding Fathers were well aware of the dangers of a religious state, and so designed a clear separation of church and state, to create a country where people were free to follow their own particular faiths. It was brilliant. How does the religious right ignore this truth?

Boo said...

quasar... I get your point but can't we just use "habitually"?? I don't think "habit" and "religion" are as synonymous as you're suggesting.

Peacechick Mary said...

The priest said, "Can I touch your body, Sister Perpetua?

Sister Perpetua says, "Sure, but don't get in the habit."

That's about as far as I can go on religion today.

betmo said...

it isn't that i disagree with any of you about the secularists and athiests being as rabid as any on the lunatic fringe of any religion. i was trying to make the bigger point that these are the folks who are bitching and moaning about religious persecution in america and how they are 'under seige' from secularists and heathens. little smidge of hypocrisy if i am not mistaken. jovial, you hit the nail square on the head. couldn't have said it any better myself. thanks to all.

Frederick said...

What I don't understand is how secularism is being shoved down anyone's throat. That is a myth. Nay, a lie. No one should have to live under a theocracy.

Sarah said...

Most people in this country have no concept of what religious persecution actually is. No person in this country has been jailed, killed, or tortured for religious belief as of late.

It's laughable to me when the so-called "religious right" screams "persecution." If only they knew...

Sarah said...

I forgot to mention - sorry, my train of thought is a little slow today - before we had a Constitution, many individuals in the United States were ridiculed for the religious beliefs they held, especially Jews and Catholics. Women were executed for so-called "witchcraft" by their accusers. Many were banished from their homes. Rhode Island was founded as a haven for banished Catholics.

Anyway, the Founding Fathers knew very well what they were doing when they established the First Amendment. Religious conservatives of the time blasted their decision, claiming it would make "other" religions as equal as Christianity. This fight between fundamentalism and law is nothing new.

EAPrez said...

Persecution? Last I checked you could still by a Bible. Couple of bookstores in my mall sell them right out in front of everyone. This past weekend the churches still held services as always. No road blocks or armed guards were keeping people from worshiping. Last I checked televison was OPTIONAL not mandatory and they still came with the ability to turn them off and on at will and to select channels. Movies are not mandatory neither is literature. You are free to practice or not practice the birth control, free engage in sex or not. Christians calling themselves persecuted - minimizes the persecution (death) christians DID face, it mimimizes the holocost the jews faced for their religion. Christians are admonished to live in the world but not be a part of it. Funny the Mormons and the Amish manage just fine. Christians who complain want their cake and want to eat it too - they don't want to make sacrifices - they want the rest of us to change. Secularisim isn't forced down your throats - you don't want to toss the TV out. You want the rest of us to adopt your viewing habits so you don't have to sacrifice.

Boo said...

whoa prez... you're arguing on our side (aren't you?)...

or is this "You want the rest of us to adopt your viewing habits so you don't have to sacrifice." directed at the Christians we're calling hypocrites?

betmo said...

boo- i think that she is saying that the christians who want a theocracy in this country have choices that they don't want to make. they want to be able to live in the world and not have to work at being a christian- even though that is what the bible teaches them they must do. they want everyone else to live as they do because they don't want to have to change their lifestyle one whit.

Trailady said...

Christian in America have NO idea what persecution is and they need to get over the victim mentality. Just my opinion...

I'm glad to have separation of church and state. It's a good thing. When/if Church & State join hands, we are going to have religious tyrants ruling us. I would never want Pat Robertson, or Jesse Jackson in charge! I'm afraid they would be dictators of morality.
God wants us to have free-will.
Well, if we allow free-will, then free-interpretation follows- which means you might end up with people who think & live differently, worship differently, etc. Oh my! That means we have to learn how to get along down here?! Nooooo, anything but thaaaaaaat...

EAPrez said...

betmo ----EXACTLY that's what I meant!

RC said...

looks like you've got some good conversations going on here...fun to read for sure.

--RC of strangeculture.blogspot.com