that not everyone who reads here knows my views on certain subjects- i am going to lay them out.
i am against terrorism and war- i don't particularly care who is involved. can be hezbollah, hamas, al quaida, israel, america- makes no difference to me. they are all wrong. i was for america going into afghanistan to search for bin laden because at that time i had faith in my government that they knew what they were doing and would do the right thing. i had no illusions about iraq. i knew that it was a lie from moment one and it angered and disillusioned me. as for any countries "right to exist," well, if they can exist then so be it. no one country or nation has any more right to exist than another. i am not advocating that israel and the jewish folks be rounded up and herded out to give back the land to palestine. i am saying that they need to stop the nonsense of mistreating the palestinians- and now the lebanese- and play nice with others. what happened 30 or 40 years ago- or even 5 years ago should be left in the past. that is over and done. israel and the palestinians had an opportunity to start working together and neither side was terribly willing to give it a go. in the words of a fellow blogger- "someone has to give first. doesn't matter who." bombing palestinian picnickers and plotting with america to go into lebanon and syria does not a vote of confidence make with the israeli government. the other thing is- i don't hold it against the israeli people because their government is shortsighted just like i don't hold it against fellow americans that our government stinks. sometimes you don't get what you want in a government and have to suffer it out. there is a real shot at working things out in the middle east without western influences and hardline approaches. they just have to either do it themselves or kill each other until there is no one left. we need to butt out and let the best ideology win.
i don't think all arab muslims are bad and i don't think all american christians are good. in fact, i don't think much of religion at all. if you do- great. keep it to yourself and we'll all be better off. i see daily where religious folks in this country are trying to take over the government and i say- 'piss off.' william donohue, head of the catholic league, stated recently that american catholics, orthodox jews, and american evangelicals are teaming up to take on the "secular left." seems they don't care much for separation of church and state. well, i happen to like my constitution the way it is and it clearly states that there be no state religion- so back down and piss off. keep your religion to yourself and worship with like minded folks. you can minister to people if you want but respect the fact that you may not be welcomed. religion is a personal thing between you and your god and i certainly wouldn't deny that- you have that right under the constitution- freedom to worship freely. that's freedom to worship freely not take over america with fundamentalism.
as for the matter of our armed services- i support the good soldiers in our military. if i didn't, i wouldn't be half as outspoken. you can be against the war and be for our troops- which i am. i am not a big fan of hypocrisy so it irks me when you have people out there who are saying 'support our troops don't talk about stuff because it undermines them.' i am outspoken because the hypocrites in washington publicly have photo ops and trot out troops who haven't been in the thick of things to speak glowingly of 'progress made' in iraq and afghanistan- all the while cutting funding for equipment, cutting funds for medical care for wounded soldiers, making soldiers pay out of their meager pay for damaged body armour, making them pay back any enlistment bonuses if they are injured and can't fight anymore before their time is up, and the list goes on and on. so- no, i think that if we pulled out of iraq tomorrow- the soldiers there would not have died in vain. there will not be peace in the middle east in my lifetime. why would we want to keep throwing away our future in an endless quagmire?
now, i hope that that clears things up. i have no wish or idea that everyone agrees with my views. you don't have to. it has taken me a lifetime to solidify my ideas and views. you have yours and i have mine and that's that. i don't think that the politicians in office have any answers. i think that "we the people" need to take responsibility for ourselves and not rely on the politicians. we need to "build a more perfect union." we need to become more involved in our country- beyond consumerism and the 'american dream.' we all hear about investments for retirement or college or whatever. we need to invest in america and take back our country. so- you don't have to agree and i don't have to agree. it isn't going to do any good to try and outshout each other. we have to find some common ground and we will have to work on finding it. otherwise, we aren't any better than the quagmire in the middle east.
24 comments:
VERY well said.
As an extremely close neighbour, experiencing some similar issues, I couldn't have said it better myself.
I've got a group on the Left telling me one thing, and a group on the Right telling me another - and it makes no difference. I feel what I feel.
Way to go Betmo.
I agree with you Betmo. Warfare and other fighting is not the way to handle disputes. Society and countries are getting worse.
Pete
Crystal Clear to me betmo
like blue skies is blue betblue
Here's a quick hi from me to U
Good post. It isn't often that people can state clearly where they stand - and we must stand for something. We won't agree on everything, but we need to agree to respect one another.
That's why I get so heartsick about the ongoing fighting in the Middle East - this has not stopped since May 1948 - truly not stopped. Why can they not sit down and talk to each other? Somebody has to go first. Please!
diva- if i had the answer- i would so be on a plane!
I agree with you 100%. That doesn't create a comment thread of debate, but it is why I visit your blog. You always say it so well.
good thoughts i mostly agree with the things that you say...except i also see some personal gray spots where I'm not sure what i think.
--RC of strangeculture.blogspot.com
Sometimes talk is not enough, sometimes one has to fight. But the purpose of the fight and the conduct are crucial to the outcome: the "loser" has to admit defeat and the "winner" should not then apply a few extra kicks "for good measure". That's what I learned from schoolyard fights.
But as I grew up I learned that not every disagreement or opposition required a physical fight.
it's one thing to face off against an individual and risk bloody noses, it's quite another to kill and maim by proxy for some grand notion that cannot be honestly told to one's supposed supporters for fear of being asked "but why?"
In what seems like a rambling diatribe, you present a coherent complaint. It's appalling what is done in the name of citizens, supposedly for our own good. Regardless of local cultural and political and economic situations and precieved injustices, I'm sure no-one anywhere wants to be violently killed or maimed, nor surely does anyone really wish that on anyone else. Time and again meeting and dialog between individual enemies has turned to friendship and common ground has been found in the simple desire to be relieved from violence. ANd yet violence is too often used by our politicians as the tool to preserve our own peace. It's almost always bullshit.
Great post Betmo.
sounds to me like you have a lot of common sense.
Lately it seems like innocent people get killed, but then Israel apologizes for killing civilians. As if that makes it ok. Those people are just as dead. And nothing gets better, the divide deepens
In the not too distant future, it's going to be hard to be conservative, just as in the previous period was to be liberal.
Blogging itself has a role to play.
Very well said betmo.
Peace.
Doesn't matter in the present political climate how reasonable you try to be-the wingers will paint you with "America hating liberal" for any dissent from the Chimperor line. Since the lot of them don't have enough brain power to wipe, I don't sweat what they have to say much-I welcome their attacks. Shooting them down only furthers the cause, ultimately.
I agree with your assertions on this post. Peace begins when people let go of the hatred and retaliation. (Now, it's easy for me to say that, I've never lost all my relatives in one day, or watched my father be killed simply because he's born Lebanese.) I struggle with anger just like any other person... but sooner or later the fighting over there must end.
Voting in the US doesn't always work because there are a lot of lazy people out there who simply won't cast a vote.
I did not agree with invading Iraq. Just could never see a clear link between Saddam & 9/11 or Saddam & Osama.
I believe in defending our country if we are invaded or attacked by hostiles. Hate war, absolutely hate it, it should ALWAYS be the very last resort, but sometimes you have to stand up to a schoolyard bully.
Separation of Church & State is a GOOD thing. I'd rather live under a secularist leader than a religious tyrant. Ancient Rome was an extremely tolerant society. The only reason they cracked down so hard on the Jews was because they kept staging uprisings against Rome.
You seem to be a very passionate person betmo. Though I may not always agree with you on every issue, I respect you. :o)
Great post and the comments are awesome too. Betmo, you are a wonderful voice of reason. thanks for posting this.
Way to use your voice Betmo. Speak up and let your thoughts be known. It not only lets the world know who and what you are, but it can relieve some tension too. :)
Great post, Betmo...
as usual.
I wish I could communicate my thoughts in such a clear and organized way.
All right everyone!!! Gather round...
We seem to be on the same page - so lets get the message out. There's a certain blog http://mikesamerica.blogspot.com/ that I've been reading and who's author is desperately trying to convince me that Right is right.
Have a look, we have to start somewhere...
Boo
boo, honey- i'll let you in on something- mike is no different than half a dozen 'right' blogs i read on a daily basis. i link to some right leaning blogs here- but these folks tend to be more centrist or at least more willing for dialogue. you can't win the hardliners over- just like you shouldn't spend a lot of time on shrill left leaning blogs. the best way to attack is to take a stance on issues in a common sense way and reach out for the untapped middle. the center is where we have to start and re-engage people in the middle. don't waste your time with trolls.
betmo - you're right of course... he was just really starting to tick me off.
The circle of blogs I follow is increasing... its nice to find like-minded people.
(especially ones like djeb who like my art - lol)
Good way to vent, thats for sure.
Maybe one counter-point if I may.
Bill Clinton gave Arafat 99% of what he wanted and the Man still backed out because he knew he needed the issue not the solution. How can you negotiate with that?... Israel has been giving up the store,.. Gaza, settlements in the west bank... and nothing is good enough. So now Hezbollah starts lobbing rockets at them. Israel counters with full force and they are "mis-treating" them?....
I am not holding the water for Jewish issues (read my last posting), quite the opposite, I think they are milking us to death. But to say Israel is mistreating the Palestinians and Lebanese just because they are replying in full force is akin to saying we mis-treated the Japanese because they bombed Pearl Harbor and we nuked the crap out of 2 of their cities. Is the counter attack too much?... how do any of us know?... how would you feel if Bingamton was being pelted by rockets from Canada? Would you say the US was mistreating Quebec if F-16's started mauling the Maple leafs?... maybe I'm being a tad sarcastic (and I really do love that), and my examples are not apples for apples, but from this peanut gallery it seems that the Palestinians and Lebanese have pissed away many opportunities to get out of the rut many times. Why did the Lebanese Goverment not dissarm Hezbollah like they dissarmed the druse? Why did Arafat not take the deal Clinton begged him to take?
Sometimes in our fervent efforts to be "fair and balanced" about everything we fail to see than sometimes things aren't so fair at all.
Other than that?... to hell with the middle east. Seriously. It is the height of our arrogance to think that such cultures can adust to the pliablity of Democracy. They ARE in fact church and state, its written in their genetic code.
Let bring the troops home and let them slice their damn throats. I could care less.
Now where's my remote?....
"Bill Clinton gave Arafat 99% of what he wanted and the Man still backed out because he knew he needed the issue not the solution. How can you negotiate with that?... Israel has been giving up the store,.. Gaza, settlements in the west bank... and nothing is good enough. So now Hezbollah starts lobbing rockets at them. Israel counters with full force and they are "mis-treating" them?...."
except this isn't what this is all about. there are reports that at least one soldier was captured inside lebanon. israel bombed palestinian picnickers 2 months or so ago when hamas had reached out to talk- and now they are bombing the shit out of lebanon after they had planned with america for a year or so. i am not debating the right of israel to exist- that is moot at this point. the israelis are as wrong as the arabs on this one. not to mention that they just bombed the shit out of the un folks for no good reason.
good to have you back tp- it was lacking around here without ya! :)
ok, its all good in the Binghamtom townhall,
Good to be back in your back yard :)
It always helps to be honest, betmo. I respect your work as a blogger because you do not sugarcoat how you feel. I always enjoy your blog, even if I happen to disagree with anything you say - for the most part, I haven't.
Keep up the good work!
: )
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