Thursday, July 05, 2007

vast left wing stupidity

i was going to give a kudos to all who participated in the blogswarm against theocracy- and i probably still will. but- i ran across this at blue gal's and i was absolutely so disgusted that i just sat here and shook my head. here's the deal folks- we can either get our heads out of our asses and fight the domestic war on terror- or we can continue to sit our asses in a pew every sunday feeling good about ourselves for believing in a fairy tale. if you believe, that's your deal. i am not going to change that. but get this- you aren't going to convert me either. and-- if you don't like that i hold you in high contempt and disgust- then don't read my fucking blog. seriously. that's what christians don't get. you believe because you believe- and guess what- i don't. that's what the blog against theocracy was about. keeping your shit separate from mine. if your faith is so shaky that you need to make this nation a 'christian nation' so that your belief structure is law- so that you can continue to abdicate personal responsibility to your god- then you have missed the idea behind blog against theocracy. guess what? if you read here, your feelings will be hurt. get over it. i will continue to fight against organized religion of any stripe, faith or belief- because it is dangerous and it is evil. it is a tool used by governments all over the world to control people. and if you believe that deeply- then you need me to look out for your best interests because obviously, you are completely incapable of making any sort of rational decisions for yourself. offended yet?


dawn said...

Hey B I see we're in agood mood today. I am staying out of this one but I will say religion has no place in politics whether a jew, christian,muslim ,budda etc. Now I lest you something on my blog and hope you can have a really nice day

Time said...

It's sad, the lack of human progress, that a majority still believe in an invisible deity in the sky, for all their answers and moral guidance. Getting past that delusion, will be a great leap for mankind.

DivaJood said...

Guess what? I believe in a God of my understanding. It doesn't make me stupid, nor does it make me an idiot. It is part of my life, and I get meaning from my own spiritual path. It's MY path, not yours. I do not berate you for YOUR belief as an atheist. I respect your beliefs, and would hope that you respect mine.

The blogswarm is completely about the First Amendment: keeping religion in ALL its guises out of politics. Nothing else. When Jefferson wrote that amendment, he recognized the dangers of a theocracy. Telling others how to believe or not believe is dangerous.

So the email that Blue Gal posted was very much about respecting differences - and that is something that the religious right fails to do. Please don't fall into the same kind of extremist thinking as the far right by calling those of us who do believe idiots!

Love and kisses!

betmo said...

diva- the bottom line is this- people who believe in religion do not get a say in lawmaking. there should be no discussion or 'giving equal time' to people who believe in religion--when it comes to lawmaking. period. as long as religious folks can worship as they please- freely- they need to keep it there. and they aren't. and then they get their panties in a wad because folks who don't believe call them idiots. tough. we wouldn't even be having this conversation if the christians in this country 1) policed themselves and 2) left religion where it belongs- in the churches. the time is over for tolerance. either religion knows its place- or it has to be shown its place.

in all actuality- i could give a rat's ass what folks believe in- as long as they keep it to themselves. hugs to you too diva. :)

C-dell said...

I don't know what was said. I am going to read it now.

Bobby Bittman said...

How are ya?

So lemme get this straight. If someone is a member of a reelijun, they can't be a lawmaker? Only atheists can make laws?

I thought that yer private b'leefs were sposed to be yer private b'leefs. So, a guy could be a relijus person, but keep that out of the picture when being a lawmaker. Is that what yer sayin? Or are you sayin only atheists can be in Congress?

Sarah said...

This is why I kept my post in the "Blog Against Theocracy" neutral, even though I'm opposed to all forms of organized religion. I'm very cool with people believing in God and being spiritual though, because it's about that person's personal beliefs and it has nothing to do with me.

On the other hand, if there were more tepid and peaceful religious believers in this world, the "Blog Against Theocracy" probably wouldn't be necessary.

betmo said...

bobby- what i am saying is- keep your beliefs out of politics. there have been religious and athiest folks in office for years- and they managed to put the needs of the people-- all of the people- above their religion. because- we are not a nation only made of christians. that's my point. the christians in this country are attempting to force everyone here into a state religion- against the constitution--and then having the nerve to be offended when other folks call them on their shit.

betmo said...

sarah- keeping it neutral works for some folks- does not work for me. the time for tiptoeing around hurt feelings is over. the time for tolerating everyone is over. if religious folks- of any kind but primarily christians in this country- are stepping over the line of separation of church and state- then no tolerance. if the so called lefty christians don't want to be lumped together with the fundies- then grow a set of balls. don't whine and complain about other folks in this country having their panties in a wad over your religious beliefs. i, for one, don't want to hear it.

Time said...

I agree with Betmo, but let me take it further.

I question the intelligence level of those who believe in an invisible deity in the sky. It's a serious flaw in decision making to get your answers from an invisible deity in the sky. It's clinically, a mental problem, to claim to have a literal conversation with an invisible deity in the sky. It's irresponsible for me as a citizen, to vote for someone who gets their direction from an invisible deity in the sky.

Believe what you want, but my President has to be a sane, real person, who is educated in science and understands they must have better information to make a decision, than just an invisible deity in the sky.

Since the debate over religion and God, is the cause of much violence in the world, it is a negative influence and should be left out of a serious decision making process, that effects all people.

Faith is believing in something without factual evidence. I want my leaders to make their decisions based on factual evidence.

C-dell said...

Will you interview me?

DivaJood said...

My god, Betmo - and you thought that house painting would be a mess! :)

As much as I think he's an idiot, Bobby Bittman asked a fairly good question, for him. But that's another issue. You were quite kind to him.

Time, not everyone who believes in God believes in an invisible diety in the sky. I studied with a man, years ago, who was a Nuclear Physicist AND an Orthodox Jew - interesting combination. His faith in science was as strong as his faith in God. He once said to me that the problem comes when people ascribe a LITERAL translation of the metaphors that are in the Bible. "A Day" is not a 24-hour time-frame in the reality of creation. He said anyone with a belief in God WITHOUT a belief in the facts of science was an idiot.

I'm just saying it is a mistake to lump all people who believe in God, or who are religious, with the far right wing, religious fundamentalists of any religious bent. We are not all rabid, frothing at the mouth, crackpots. Some of us actually want to see Bush impeached. :)

Time said...


I would agree with you, but those are not the kind of religious people making loud noises in the political arena.

Which brings up a good question. Where are the more moderate religious thinkers, and why is it that the fundamentalists seem to be the only loud religious voices in politics?

Chuck said...

Well, you already know what I think about religion.

SadButTrue said...

I've blogged in the past about the Fairness Doctrine in broadcasting. It's a complex issue. On one hand, the destruction of the doctrine has allowed the reight wingnuts to establish one-sided talk radio, and outlets like FOX "news" on TV. On the other hand, their is nothing fair about giving some cockamamie fantasy equal time with the objective truth, as in the effort to introduce intelligent design into the schools alongside of evolution.

As an atheist, I don't even think I should have to explain what that has to do with this discussion. "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen Henry. Roberts

The Future Was Yesterday said...

First, I left this comment at BG's place:
WOW! Looks like I better go back home and get my Geiger counter.:) But I'm not here to poke fun. BG, in my opinion, it took courage to state your opinions as you did: I admire that. And I say the same of the other poster. I'm here via a link at Betmo's place. I read your, and Betmo's post several times, along with all comments on both several times, and they prompted me to make this post. I'm not a "hit watcher", I could care less about hits. I don't think I have all the answers. I just want to help. Our goal is to get this awful horror out of our country's seat of power before the country is ruined, is it not?
Betmo, it took some courage for you to speak out as well, and I want you to know I respect that greatly. To you and your commenters then....maybe my post I cited to BG can be of some help. I really hope so. And to all of you: Don't give up! Hope is not dead!!

sumo said...

Bottom line...religion has a place. For those that want religion...their heart is a good place to start. Heart and mind and works. But it stops there. When it comes to the laws of the land and politics...the religion has to go out the window. Religion must not have a hand in law. Sure there is the commandment...thou shalt not kill. Nothing wrong with that...and laws in place for that also. But there is not a place for one's religious conscience to come into play with the courts and the rule of law. Religion is simply one aspect of some peoples lives...the law applies to us all. One can be an atheist and not break laws...or kill or cheat...or steal. We have seen what many religious people commit while cloaking themselves in their bibles...incest, pedophilia, money laundering and so on. There must be a very clear line drawn between the two...or we are doomed. As an atheist I don't have a problem with people believing in their being of choice...but they should feel the same about me. I should not be held in contempt because I don't believe in their Gods...and they in turn should not condemn me as a satanist or liar or thief because I am Godless. I am a happy person. Except for the religious meddlers into the Constitution and the court system. They have no right to meddle there. You don't see the atheists meddling with the courts.

Frownie Face said...

"i will continue to fight against organized religion of any stripe, faith or belief- because it is dangerous and it is evil"

Then you're not really a supporter of freedom or the First Amendment. You're a fanatic totalitarian -- just like the fundamentalist Christians.

betmo said...

so be it.

alaskababy said...

I getchoo betmo. I cannot stay neutral or tip-toe around something so harmful as religion.

sumo said "We have seen what many religious people commit while cloaking themselves in their bibles...incest, pedophilia, money laundering and so on"

don't even et me started. I LIVED that. and I have nieces that had to live it after I did...

I didn't participate in the lastest group blog against theocracy, mine is an ongoing project. Check out my two latest posts, U.S. Military and Fundamentalism and mormon, inc. involvement in politics... and then check out the great comments by dizzy. and remember, mormonism is not some quaint little religion, as a corporation they are extremely powerful. Do not underestimate them and don't think for a minute Romney cannot take this election.

I'm not self-promoting here, this shit is for-real messed up, we are being slow-boiled here and we need to jump out of the pot.

Sarah said...

"Then you're not really a supporter of freedom or the First Amendment. You're a fanatic totalitarian -- just like the fundamentalist Christians."

You've got it wrong - organized religion is a THREAT to the First Amendment, my friend. These people are "organized" for a reason - to implement their religion into society and government. Look at the Southern Baptists. They are nothing to sneeze at - these people have HUGE numbers and lots of $$$.

Do I even have to mention fundamentalist Islam? What good has that done for ANY society?

DivaJood said...

Time, good question: Which brings up a good question. Where are the more moderate religious thinkers, and why is it that the fundamentalists seem to be the only loud religious voices in politics?

There is a profound difference between faith and fanaticism. Moderate religious thinkers do write, and are involved, but there is no need to force others to think or believe as they do. Attraction, rather than promotion.

But fanatics: they DEMAND the world believe as they do. It is the fanatic who doesn't see the hypocrisy of murdering doctors who perform abortions. It is the fanatic who claims war is peace. It is the fanatic who uses fear to keep people in line.

Anger doesn't keep dialogue open. It hardens hearts, it nurtures hatred. Fanatics breed hatred, and it spills over onto everything. So those angry Atheists lump everyone who has religious belief into one big stew. Not necessary, folks.

supergirlest said...

i. couldn't. agree. with. you. more. brava!!!!

just me said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dusty said...

There is a vast difference between Theocrats and believing in a higher deity or being.

Theocrats, by definition want to shove their belief system down everyone's throat.

A good Christian knows the difference and allows people to worship as they please and keeps their religion out of the political arena. You can be a good Christian and also be pro-choice.

But calling people that believe in God stupid is just plain wrong. Its a value judgment no one has the right to make.

Theocracy is stupid..Christians are not.

fairlane said...

I'm not as militant about religion as you, but my entire point in the "flame wars" is that Liberals claim to love diversity and then when they actually come face to face with it, they get pissed off.

I say again, and I guess I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the Damn face or I give up on Liberals:

There is too much diversity among "Liberals" for their to ever be 100% consensus.

However, the one thing we agree on is that La Cosa Bushstra must go and they must go right now!

That is far more important.

Interesting side note. The guy who got so pissed says on his blog (To paraphrase): I've been forcing my opinions on people since 2002.

I wish I read that before I got into with him as it would have saved me a great deal of time.

betmo said...

dusty- i disagree- obviously. i intend to wrap things up in another post- but not tonight- i had a nice day participating in live earth.

Granny said...

Lurking. I'll go check out that other blog now.

Thorne said...

Awwww... Looks like I missed all the fun! After perusing all the comments and posts linked by love (*wink*) in this little shitstorm, (and regardless of what each of we little bloggers, each of we "individuals", might think, this really is a tiny lil shitstorm), I only have a couple of comments.
We're all on the same side in BAT. It doesn't matter a whit if we use God or Goddess, fuck or idiot or any number of other words that some may find offensive. We are all doing our part. Saying that one voice or tone is damaging to the BAT, is just one more way of silencing.
It's like that ol' saying: "Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one, and they all stink". There's another saying, "Take what you need and leave the rest."
Personally, I enjoy the diversity of this blogswarm, even when I find myself offended by an opinion. When I'm offended it's an opportunity to look at myself and my personal prejudices. It's an opportunity to examine my opinion and although often affirms it, occasionally tweaks my perspective a bit, which is always a good thing. If I find a post is waaay over the top for me, I'm pretty much, "whatever..." and on to the next post.
In closing, lemme remind those of ya'll who do know, and inform those who don't. I'm a witch. A spell casting, healing and hexing, magick making, broom carrying witch!!! As such, both athiests and christians tend to think my beliefs are stupid or delusional at best, and pure fucking evil at worst. Frankly, I could give a shit. And if everybody doesn't chill the hell out, I'm warning ya... I'm gonna lay a big fat whammy on ya'll!!!

Thorne said...

Ummm... one more thing. I like peanut butter and mayo sandwiches with dill pickles and onions. Anybody who doesn't is an idiot.

betmo said...

thornie- you are lucky because that is precisely what i ate growing up- minus the onions :) mom likes with.